Chat transcription

13:01:04 From Leandro Raphael Nascimento de Paula to Everyone:
se hablas despacio, si
13:02:11 From André to Everyone:
Boa tarde!
13:04:04 From Jose Luis Martinez to Everyone:
gracias
13:05:16 From Ana Paula dos Santos Salvat to Everyone:
Se você ainda não respondeu na outra sessão, por favor, responda no chat se está de acordo com a gravação do evento. O vídeo será disponibilizado futuramente em nosso website. If you haven’t answered in the other session, please answer in the chat box if you agree with the recording of the event. The video will be available on our website in the future.
13:10:10 From Matheus Corassa to Everyone:
Jens is a German-Brazilian speaking with the hands like the italians 😅
13:11:48 From Jens Baumgarten to Everyone:
Replying to “Jens is a German-Bra…”

rsrs

13:13:14 From Jens Baumgarten to Claire Joan Farago(Direct Message):
Thank you so much, Claire, for joining!
13:14:42 From André to Everyone:
Grada Kilomba’s rituals of resistance: https://artdaily.com/news/140211/Grada-Kilomba-s-rituals-of-resistance#.ZBx6dXbMLIU
13:14:59 From Claire Joan Farago to Jens Baumgarten(Direct Message):
Thanks, Jens, good to be here with you all!
13:15:12 From Jens Baumgarten to Claire Joan Farago(Direct Message):
Reacted to “Thanks, Jens, good t…” with ❤️
13:30:49 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
se é árabe, o H tem som de R 🙂
13:31:02 From Ana Magalhães MAC USP to Everyone:
👍🏻
13:31:05 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
in arabic, H sounds like R
13:31:11 From Ana Magalhães MAC USP to Everyone:
E o rr, Nina?
13:31:29 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
geralmente, som R gutural
13:32:04 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
o H é um R fraco
13:33:08 From Ana Magalhães MAC USP to Everyone:
👍🏻
13:39:56 From André to Everyone:
Parabéns Maria!
13:39:59 From Matheus Corassa to Everyone:
Congrats, Maria Eduarda!
13:40:08 From Jose Luis Martinez to Everyone:
thanks for your presentation
13:40:13 From Maria Eduarda Kersting to Everyone:
Thanks!
13:40:19 From Natália Gomes to Everyone:
Congratulations, Maria!
13:40:20 From Pollyana Quintella to Everyone:
Thanks, Maria
13:42:19 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
my neighbour is making A LOT of noise right now, probably making holes on his wall haha.
so I think I better make a comment here, is it ok?
13:42:45 From Ana Paula dos Santos Salvat to Everyone:
Reacted to “my neighbour is maki…” with 👍🏻
13:44:05 From Maria Eduarda Kersting to Everyone:
It’s ok Nina
13:48:18 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
I have read other text of the book, but I liked the concept of the museum as an exhibitionary complex. I can relate this way of perceiving the exhibition and the visitors -both being observed, in a certain way- to the foucauldian notions of the Panoptic, in which the control and the power are always affecting both even by its own architecture (the exhibition itself, or the museum as a whole).
13:51:03 From Matheus Corassa to Everyone:
Reacted to “I have read other te…” with ❤️
13:52:09 From Maíra de Paula to Everyone:
Sarah Lewis – October Series on Carrie Mae Weems
https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262538596/carrie-mae-weems/
13:52:21 From Maria Eduarda Kersting to Everyone:
Thank you!
13:53:17 From Maíra de Paula to Everyone:
That is a great point!
13:53:43 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
I remember the Black Lives Matters movement, specially in 2020, made some statements about Maíra’s question too. They complain that people constantly have invited them talk about race, but that’s not the only issue they could debate and are capable to debate. because that would be another layer or racism anyway.
13:54:08 From Leandro Raphael Nascimento de Paula to Everyone:
There is one thing we have to take in consideration when talk about race. Even though an art work doesn’t necesserily has racism at it’s core discussion, because race relations are touched by the experiences of suffering racism. They, although involutarily, will lead us to a reflection on racism
13:54:23 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
Reagiu a “There is one thing…” com 👍
13:55:15 From Andrea Ronqui to Everyone:
Reacted to “There is one thing w…” with 👍
13:56:02 From Ana Magalhães MAC USP to Everyone:
I’ll put my commentary here for everybody to consider: the second essay of the Postcolonial museum book bothered me very, very much. In the sense that it did not even mention two very fundamental things:
13:56:11 From Leandro Raphael Nascimento de Paula to Everyone:
One of the artists I’ve interviewed said something really important to me, they said “I don’t make race the main point of my work. But then BAM, you have black body right on your face”
13:56:36 From Andrea Ronqui to Everyone:
Reacted to “One of the artists I…” with 👍
13:56:43 From Pollyana Quintella to Everyone:
Reacted to “One of the artists I…” with 👍
13:57:12 From Ana Paula dos Santos Salvat to Everyone:
Reacted to “I remember the Black…” with 👍🏻
13:57:20 From Ana Paula dos Santos Salvat to Everyone:
Reacted to “There is one thing w…” with 👍🏻
13:57:22 From Ana Magalhães MAC USP to Everyone:
1- the DIFFERENCE between a museum and an universal exhibition. Though the London 1851 model is a paradigm, it is quite rare for a universal exhibition or the biennial type exhibition to gather COLLECTIONS OF OBJECTS OF ARTWORKS.
13:57:28 From Ana Paula dos Santos Salvat to Everyone:
Reacted to “One of the artists I…” with 👍🏻
13:57:40 From Rafael Cardoso to Everyone:
Reacted to “1- the DIFFERENCE be…” with 👍
13:58:02 From Marina B. to Everyone:
Reacted to “1- the DIFFERENCE be…” with 👍
13:58:19 From Leandro Raphael Nascimento de Paula to Everyone:
Reacted to “1- the DIFFERENCE be…” with 👍
13:58:21 From Marina B. to Everyone:
Reacted to “One of the artists I…” with 👍
13:58:29 From Ana Magalhães MAC USP to Everyone:
2- Art history as a discipline was born in the contexto of one of the biggest world exhibitions of the 19th century, the Vienna World fair. A critical analysis of this bare fact should at least have been mentioned.
13:58:43 From Leandro Raphael Nascimento de Paula to Everyone:
Reacted to “2- Art history as a …” with 👍
13:59:08 From Andrea Ronqui to Everyone:
Reacted to “1- the DIFFERENCE be…” with 👍
13:59:12 From Andrea Ronqui to Everyone:
Reacted to “2- Art history as a …” with 👍
13:59:25 From Ana Paula dos Santos Salvat to Everyone:
Reacted to “1- the DIFFERENCE be…” with 👍🏻
13:59:27 From Ana Paula dos Santos Salvat to Everyone:
Reacted to “2- Art history as a …” with 👍🏻
14:00:05 From Matheus Corassa to Everyone:
Reacted to “1- the DIFFERENCE be…” with 👍
14:00:06 From Matheus Corassa to Everyone:
Reacted to “2- Art history as a …” with 👍🏻
14:01:49 From Maíra de Paula to Everyone:
We should talk about race when talking about these works but the works should be the starting point. In many cases, they are not!
14:01:53 From Ana Magalhães MAC USP to Everyone:
Replying to “1- the DIFFERENCE be…”

Sorry, objects OR artworks

14:03:43 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
exactly. constantly the racialized way of seeing people overlaps the materiality of the work, the work itself.
14:04:00 From Jose Luis Martinez to Everyone:
I have turned out my video connection because my internet it’s be unstable. Apologies
14:04:05 From Maíra de Paula to Everyone:
Reacted to “exactly. constantly …” with ❤️
14:04:12 From Ana Paula dos Santos Salvat to Everyone:
Reacted to “I have turned out my…” with 👍🏻
14:05:16 From Maíra de Paula to Everyone:
Reacted to “2- Art history as a …” with 👍
14:05:19 From Maíra de Paula to Everyone:
Reacted to “1- the DIFFERENCE be…” with 👍
14:05:39 From Maíra de Paula to Everyone:
Reacted to “I remember the Black…” with 👍🏻
14:08:47 From Andrea Ronqui to Everyone:
all these issues will be returning for next few weeks and we’ll have opportunity to talk about them more 🙂
14:09:00 From Ilana Goldstein – Unifesp to Everyone:
Hi, everybody. Sorry for coming so late. Unfortunatelly, I am very busy with urgent administrative work at Unifesp/Capes. But I wanted to be at least during the final part with you. The debate seems very exciting.
14:09:10 From Ana Magalhães MAC USP to Everyone:
Hey Ilana!
14:13:00 From Jose Luis Martinez to Everyone:
I’m thinking about the “museos de sitios”, locates in the indigenous communities, with objects recuperated from archaeological sites. This “museums” are managed by the own communities. That’s can be assumed as “post colonial” museums? There is a very thine line, but…
14:14:44 From Andrea Ronqui to Jens Baumgarten(Direct Message):
prof, ela está com PowerPoint? a co-host ainda é a Maria Eduarda
14:15:12 From Jens Baumgarten to Everyone:
I agree, this comes close to somehow an ideal museum, but as you said, it is a very thin line of many kinds of approriations…
14:15:35 From Jens Baumgarten to Andrea Ronqui(Direct Message):
Replying to “prof, ela está com P…”

Obrigado, vou mudar!

14:15:41 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
Reagiu a “I agree, this come…” com 👍
14:15:44 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
Reagiu a “I’m thinking about…” com 👍
14:15:49 From Ana Magalhães MAC USP to Everyone:
Reacted to “I’m thinking about t…” with 👍🏻
14:16:18 From Andrea Ronqui to Jens Baumgarten(Direct Message):
Reacted to “Obrigado, vou mudar!” with 👍
14:17:32 From Ana Magalhães MAC USP to Everyone:
Replying to “I’m thinking about t…”

In Portuguese, "museus comunitários", José

14:20:05 From Jose Luis Martinez to Everyone:
Jens, I agree with you, but I know other kind of museums, in the same thin line: the museums that used by the communities with the goal to remember or re learning the ancient practices, or iconographies, for example. I believe we must to open the discussion about the museums far away the European or Colonial experience
14:20:31 From Jose Luis Martinez to Everyone:
Thanks Ana
14:22:00 From Jens Baumgarten to Everyone:
Absolutely! This is what I meant with re-establishing apparently “new” concepts but that reaffirm dichotomies and ignore this complexity. And these museums are an excellent example to overcome these false dichotomies
14:22:07 From Ilana Goldstein – Unifesp to Everyone:
I would put Jose´s question in broader terms: how should we deal with Indigenous museums and indigenous arts within the decolonial debate? In Brazil some indigenous artists and curators use this expression to refer to what They are doing. But I have the impression their critics goes towards Brazilian national arts system. And Rafael Cardoso shows us how peripherical Brazilian arts practionners and scholars are themselves…
14:22:49 From Ana Magalhães MAC USP to Everyone:
Reacted to “I would put Jose´s q…” with 👍🏻
14:23:01 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
Reagiu a “I would put Jose´…” com 👍
14:23:06 From Leandro Raphael Nascimento de Paula to Everyone:
Reacted to “I would put Jose´s q…” with 👍
14:23:30 From Jens Baumgarten to Everyone:
To take up your point, Ilana, it is also to “unify” indigenous. I think the positions in Bolivia and Chile for example and Brazil are very different
14:23:55 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
Reagiu a “To take up your po…” com ❤️
14:24:39 From Matheus Corassa to Everyone:
Wonderful presentation, Pollyana! Congrats!
14:24:57 From Natália Gomes to Everyone:
Congrats, Pollyana!!!
14:25:06 From André to Everyone:
Congrats Pollyana!
14:25:25 From Jose Luis Martinez to Everyone:
Ilana, I agree with you. I think this is one of the thin lines we are talking about
14:25:29 From Rafael Cardoso to Everyone:
Obrigado, Pollyana!
14:25:35 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
Respondendo a “To take up your po…”

this topic is central to my research, because I'm trying to understand relations between two colonized countries, both periferical, but with so many differences in the constitution of the power and the self representation.

14:25:52 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
congrats Pollyana and Maria Eduarda.
14:25:58 From Ana Magalhães MAC USP to Everyone:
Which are the countries, Nina?
14:26:15 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
Respondendo a “Which are the coun…”

Egypt and Brazil. in 19th century

14:26:29 From Ana Magalhães MAC USP to Everyone:
Super interesting, Nina!
14:26:49 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
Reagiu a “Super interesting,…” com ❤️
14:26:52 From Pollyana Quintella to Everyone:
Reacted to “Wonderful presentati…” with ❤️
14:26:55 From Pollyana Quintella to Everyone:
Reacted to “Congrats, Pollyana!!…” with ❤️
14:26:58 From Pollyana Quintella to Everyone:
Reacted to “Congrats Pollyana!” with ❤️
14:27:02 From Pollyana Quintella to Everyone:
Reacted to “congrats Pollyana an…” with ❤️
14:29:24 From Leandro Raphael Nascimento de Paula to Everyone:
We fight for it, it was never about them just willing given us space. It’s about them having to give us space, even though it’s still na assimetrycal relation
14:29:42 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
I agreew too Andrea. when someone is “giving” a space, is because the space still theirs to give. the other had no space until that.
14:30:00 From Marina B. to Everyone:
Reacted to “I agreew too Andrea….” with ❤️
14:30:11 From Marina B. to Everyone:
Reacted to “We fight for it, it …” with ❤️
14:31:55 From Andrea Ronqui to Everyone:
Reacted to “I agreew too Andrea….” with 👍
14:32:38 From Andrea Ronqui to Everyone:
Reacted to “We fight for it, it …” with 👍
14:34:44 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
this is a very good question professor Maria. it made me think also how our brazilian history is mixed with slavery – being the last country to abolish it – and even monarchy system – being the only latin country to maintain it after independence.
14:36:26 From Ilana Goldstein – Unifesp to Everyone:
Rafael´s texts made me see very clearly the different levels/dimensions of colonization. Global, continental, regional, national, local, ethnical. Maybe they demand different analytical and political strategies.
14:36:45 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
Reagiu a “Rafael´s texts ma…” com ❤️
14:36:55 From Rafael Cardoso to Everyone:
Reacted to “Rafael´s texts made …” with ❤️
14:37:06 From Rafael Cardoso to Everyone:
Removed a ❤️ reaction from “Rafael´s texts made …”
14:37:11 From Pollyana Quintella to Everyone:
Sorry. One second.
14:37:15 From Maíra de Paula to Everyone:
Reacted to “Rafael´s texts made …” with ❤️
14:37:20 From Rafael Cardoso to Everyone:
Reacted to “Rafael´s texts made …” with ❤️
14:38:00 From Pollyana Quintella to Everyone:
Reacted to “Rafael´s texts made …” with ❤️
14:39:55 From Matheus Corassa to Everyone:
There is another thin line when the past colonisers talk about “decolonizing art history” and give space to the same old vision of the Latin-American artistic production highlighting its “exotism”.
14:40:12 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
Reagiu a “There is another t…” com ❤️
14:40:55 From Ilana Goldstein – Unifesp to Everyone:
Reacted to “There is another thi…” with ❤️
14:41:30 From Jose Luis Martinez to Everyone:
👌
14:45:00 From Ana Magalhães MAC USP to Everyone:
Thank you, Rafael, for the great text! Thanks also Maria for accepting the invitation on the same issue!
14:45:17 From Maria Berbara to Everyone:
Reacted to “Thank you, Rafael, f…” with ❤️
14:59:44 From Andrea Ronqui to Everyone:
If every author embraces the idea of America only as US, the idea will keep unchanged…
14:59:56 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
Reagiu a “If every author em…” com 👍
15:00:05 From Marina B. to Everyone:
Reacted to “If every author embr…” with 👍
15:00:13 From Rafael Cardoso to Everyone:
Reacted to “Thank you, Rafael, f…” with ❤️
15:01:41 From Maria Berbara to Everyone:
Reacted to “If every author embr…” with ❤️
15:02:02 From Leandro Raphael Nascimento de Paula to Everyone:
Reacted to “If every author embr…” with 💪
15:02:39 From Andrea Ronqui to Everyone:
Thanks, Rafael!
15:07:22 From Leandro Raphael Nascimento de Paula to Everyone:
Escola Panapana
15:10:47 From Claire Joan Farago to Everyone:
Thank you everyone, this seminar has been great and very important for articulating the complexity of decolonization and what comes after.
15:11:00 From Maria Berbara to Everyone:
Reacted to “Thank you everyone, …” with ❤️
15:11:03 From Ana Paula dos Santos Salvat to Everyone:
Reacted to “Thank you everyone, …” with ❤️
15:11:10 From Marina B. to Everyone:
Reacted to “Thank you everyone, …” with ❤️
15:11:13 From Ana Magalhães MAC USP to Everyone:
Hi Claire, thank you so much for being here today!
15:11:20 From Andrea Ronqui to Everyone:
Reacted to “Thank you everyone, …” with ❤️
15:11:28 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
Reagiu a “Thank you everyone…” com ❤️
15:11:51 From André to Everyone:
Thank you everyone.
15:11:54 From Maíra de Paula to Everyone:
Reacted to “Thank you everyone, …” with ❤️
15:12:10 From Marina B. to Everyone:
Thank you!
15:12:21 From Aniely Mussoi to Everyone:
Thank you for this opportunity!
15:12:24 From Natália Gomes to Everyone:
Thank you so much and see you next Thursday.
15:12:24 From Jaqueline Veloso to Everyone:
Thank you all!!
15:12:27 From Talita Pereira to Everyone:
Thank you all for giving me the opportunity to attend this seminar. Congratulations for the presentations!
15:12:27 From Matheus Corassa to Everyone:
Thank you, Jens! Your generosity is always remarquable!
15:12:38 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
Reagiu a “Thank you, Jens! Y…” com ❤️
15:12:38 From Andrea Ronqui to Everyone:
Thank you! See you next thursday
15:12:39 From Nina Paschoal to Everyone:
Congrats everyone, nice to meet you all. have a good week
15:12:44 From Matheus Corassa to Everyone:
Thank you all, guys!
15:12:48 From Maria Eduarda Kersting to Everyone:
Thank you!
15:12:59 From Laerte Fernandes to Everyone:
Abraços